xchat.org

adipate · Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 22

I have recently switched from unofficial windows build(SilvereX) to the official XChat for windows build. I am a native english speaker and use the windows IME to input foreign languages. In other GTK applications (gaim, and the unofficial XChat for windows builds) when you right click a text box you can select Windows IME as one of the input methods, however in the official XChat I am unable to make this selection. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's because the official build uses static GTK and possibly an older version? Is there any way to get Windows IME to show up as an available input method in the official build? (Currently it only shows Default and Cyrillic transliterated)

Here is a screenshot of the Input Method window, incase it is unclear what I'm wanting to be able to select.
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6691/inputmethodld9.jpg

adipate · Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 22

I failed to mention my version information.
XChat 2.8.1b

A multiplatform IRC Client

Windows 5.1 [i686/1.66GHz]
Codepage: 1252 Unicode: Yes
Compiled: Jan 30 2007

Registered to:
Evaluation copy

© 1998-2007 Peter Železný <zed@xchat.org>

peterz · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 979 Location: Australia

If you registered, I would definately look at adding the Windows IME option.

Could you give me an example of how the WinIME works, what you press and which character it should produce?

adipate · Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 22

The Windows IME allows for foreign language (character/symbol) input (Japanese, Cyrillic, Chinese, etc) using a standard keyboard. In my particular case it's Japanese. As I type out the words phonetically in English they are converted to the particular Japanese scripts/kanji (I believe this is transliteration). It's my understanding that any application that can take Unicode input will work just fine with the windows IME, otherwise I believe the locale has to be set to that particular language.

XChat receives the input from the IME regardless of which build I use. However the unofficial windows builds of XChat allow for Windows IME to be selected from the Input Methods option. This allows for my text to appear in the input box instead of appearing in the corner of the application and then being sent to the text box (I'm not an expert but it's my reasoning that the input method stuff/etc is what allows me to achieve this). I don't know if this is because of the GTK version or if the extra input options were deemed unnecessary and stripped, or that it's even a GTK thing at all. Here are some screenshots that illustrate what I'm trying to get across. I hope this information is sufficient and helpful with the issue.

Official Windows Build with Default Input Method:
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/5110/defaultinputmethodcx2.png
(Currently only Default (English), and Cyrillic are the only available choices)

Unofficial Windows Builds with Windows IME Input Method:
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4339/windowsimeinputmethodlg5.png

As for registering I actually intend to since I've run into issues with the unofficial builds and the client freezing while sending DCCs, issues with transparency, and a few others that don't seem to be present in the official build.

Additional Resources:
Windows IME:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/ie6/downloads/recommended/ime/default.mspx
http://www.japanese-irc.net/index.php/Channel:IME:Windows_IME

XChat client setup:
http://www.japanese-irc.net/index.php/Channel:Encoding#XChat

adipate · Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 22

Further research on my part has led me to believe the component that has the desired functionality is "imime", a GTK+ input module. ( http://imime.sourceforge.jp/ ).

Please add this to the official build.

peterz · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 979 Location: Australia

I know all the above, but I'm still looking for a specific example. Like, I press "abc", it produces Japanese character "xyz".

adipate · Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 22

In the case of Japanese you input the letters phonetically in English. Most characters could be considered a consonant and a vowel together. There are two phonetic alphabets. Hirigana and Katakana. Hirigana for native Japanese words and katakana for foreign loan words. The conversion would be done via a lookup table. So lets say I want to say "Good evening". So as I type out konbanha (ko n ba n ha) it converts those to the appropriate character. The conversion to kanji (symbols with a meaning/ideal) would be done via a lookup table as well; You type out the word (and in the case of the IME) press space and it brings up the little window of options for conversions.

Examples:
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7376/examplewt8.png
*The first line is the English meaning, the second is the romaji, third is the hirigana, fourth is the kanji.
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1324/example2ud7.png
*The first option is the kanji, second is hirigana (what I typed), and the third is katakana.

If you're wanting to see some actual lookup tables check out scim-anthy. It's a commonly used IME for Japanese on *nix. scim-anthy-1.2.2\data has the tables I believe.
http://sourceforge.jp/projects/scim-imengine/
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.jp/scim-imengine/22709/scim-anthy-1.2.2.tar.gz

If you are unfamiliar with scim, scim-anthy or any of the others this might explain it a bit better:
http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~apricots/scim-anthy/howto.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romaji will show you hirigana and katakana and their romaji equivalents.
http://www.realkana.com will show you in a flash window.

Perhaps this is what you were wondering.

peterz · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 979 Location: Australia

I'm playing with it in SilvereX's:

I chose Windows IME in the right-click menu, and typed that out, but nothing got converted. Is there anything else to turn on?

adipate · Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 22

The A means direct input (which either means direct input from your natural keyboard, or perhaps direct input for a Japanese keyboard; something like that.)
You need to click the A and select hirigana. (or press ALT+` to change inputs in your IME). You might need to right click your language bar and select adjust language bar position, or you can 'restore' it which will break it free from the task bar and position a movable frame in the upper right section of your screen.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5074/winimeinputlb1.png
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2532/imeinputselectionssh1.png

ALT + SHIFT will cycle between languages (English, Japanese, Russian, what ever you have installed)
"あ" is hirigana. http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7847/hiriganast8.png
"ア" is katakana. http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8526/katakanavo1.png

After typing something you can press the spacebar to bring up a conversion menu (If you want to use kanji or if you're typing in hirigana and want something in katakana)

Full-Width and Half-Width are the character size. Half-Width originating with legacy encodings when the character/kanji size fitting on older displays/terminals. (I believe this is to be the case anyways)

peterz · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 979 Location: Australia

Seems to be working now:

Let me know if you decide to register, I could probably send you a test version with this feature onboard.

sithgunner · Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 10

this is exactly what i've been looking for as a fix...
i had to look elsewhere for irc app, just because this is an annoying issue to see the typed japanese off from where your cursor is.

is the feature incorporated in the official build now? i'd pay if thats done.

sithgunner · Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 10

i guess i figured something out.

usually IME are toggled on/off from direct input via alt+back quote key, but when i use that, just like for any other app, the japanese are still displayed at the left upper corner. but instead if i use the right-click -> select input method to IME, then it does show where the cursor is.

the problem is
1) i rather want it get toggled just like how other apps work (but this is still a minor problem if second problem fixes)

2) font is just wrong on the typing area (some ugly default blocky font), but when typed out and displayed in the chat screen, the font is nice and pretty with the font i specified on the xchat setting. this is a bit annoying, but still far better than having the characters at left upper corner.

i think these are due to gtk being a bit hacking around about input methods, but if the font is changed to what i specify in the preference during im typing, then it looks cool enough.

i'll make a screenshot if you need it. though, basically it is like that in the screenshot above too, the font on the dropdown is different from the font of the typed text.

i think the font used on the typing area is the font specified as the xchat interface, as i see that font in the font selection screen in the preference too, so if u can switch the font of the whole interface too (not the chat screen font that you can specify already), then it might do good.

i hope it can be fixed and im ready to press the paying button Cool

sithgunner · Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 10

ok, i found the option 'use text box font and colors' which basically fixes the second problem Smile

and also i figured once i select 'Windows IME' in the input box, the Windows 'alt+back quote' shortcut works to turn on/off the japanese input, so if u can make the input method as 'Windows IME' by default, im suspecting it'll just work nicely.

peterz · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 979 Location: Australia

Basically you're looking for a keyboard shortcut to the menu items in the right-click menu?

sithgunner · Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 10

no.

current situation is, in order to make xchat work like regular windows app in terms of japanese input, you have to

1) right click on input area and choose Windows IME as input method.

2) use keyboard short cut to toggle japanese input.

regular apps would not need step 1, and im thinking if you can let go of this first step, it'll look much better for us IME users. as a suggestion, i say, making Windows IME as default input method instead of letting user do that everytime they launch xchat, is a good way. so, im not asking for a keyboard shortcut to do step 1, but have it like that default instead.

hope you consider it for us.